Curse

Drewfense · Jul 12, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

<prepares for angry responses>...Why do rangers use barrage?...I am fairly new to rangering (just started 2 weeks ago, almost have lvl 3 survivor on my ranger in cantha via trapping, poison/bleeding, interrupt, strait up damage builds) and it seems like barrage is the most popular ranger elite, but I just do not see why.

The range on barrage seems to be minimal, less than that on an elementalists fireball or rodgorts. Even firing into fairly compact groups it seems that I can never get more than 3 enemies at a time. This is especially true since there are no longer aggro items to assist in clumping the enemies close enough. Then the damage is ok...but I think an ele would punch out more dps (if the arguement goes this way, I will do the calculations tonight and see). So if you haven't seen it coming, my question is why not bring another elementalist over a barrage ranger? I know when I am putting groups togethor as a monk, I never bring a barrage ranger any more.

The best reasoning I can think of is that you are sacrificing dps for having party member with higher armor and hopefully (definitely unlikely in a PUG) able to interrupt a rez/troll/heal sig. I am sure someone will argue longevity since with a zealous string you can barrage forever, but the same can be said for an ele if the ele has proper energy management. Regardless, going the zealous string route will only reduce the damage since you can't use a vamp, making barrage less effective.

Barrage certainly has its place such as in PvE tombs because it effectively thwarts Fingers of Chaos, but I do not see much use for it elsewhere. Why not take Melandru's Shot, a beefed up power shot that will give you infinite energy in some areas. What about one ranger running Melandru's Arrows and another with Apply Poison - now everyone has -8 degen. Broad Head Arrow with interrupts is an easy and very effective build to run. Hell even Ignite Arrows with Quick Shot.

Instead of just raging since you love barrage, defend it. You can call me a newb if you want (since technically I am to being a ranger), but then atleast explain your point.

Pick Me · Jul 12, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

The reason why Barragers exist is because there are multiple targets. Melandru's Arrow, Power Shot, Broad Head Arrow are single targets. Barrage can hit upto 6 targets (assuming they are close to your primary target).

Barrage on a Long bow is far hitting I think than a spell.

Casting Mark of Rodgort triggers the computer AI to your presence. Barrage will hit them before they are aware that you are there.

AoE scatters the computer AI, Barrage doesn't.

Nivryx · Jul 12, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

i like to call barrage the ranger's 'tack-on' skill. in most situations its just what inexperienced rangers put in their build because they don't know what to expect. In truth, however, there are plenty of better builds that could be used in most of these situations. as to the ignite arrows, i generally stay away with it when running my quickshot build in pve. in pve there are plenty of places where you may need to keep your aggro where they are. by giving them that aoe the enemy will scatter, your tank may possibly chase and then aggro more enemies. using kindle arrows works well instead in its place as it adds more damage and doesnt scatter.

JimmyDean · Jul 12, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Barrage is popular because it is effective at spreading damage. You can use enchantments or weapon spells to increase the damage of each arrow. Even though each individual arrow may not hit for very high numbers, you're weakening the entire group by a very nice chunk.

Barrage also has a low mana cost and is spammable. Barrage also doesn't make monsters run, like elementalist AOE attacks do, and with a long bow you can get some very nice range.

Wolydarg · Jul 12, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

13 Expertise makes barrage spammable without the need for a zealous string.

Barrage is just a skill that'll work, just like having a party full of warrior, monks, and nukers. Will other combo's work? Yes. Is a group with just warriors, monks, and nukers as efficient as a carefully laid out and specific group? No. Most people in the end know what works(most of the time) and don't like to stray from it for fear of losing a mission and having to restart. So they bring barrage as it deals a good chunk of damage, requires pretty much no concentration of hitting "1" over and over again, and is pretty much what every group asks for when they se a ranger (exceptions are trappers and occasional interrupt-based roles).

Robin_Anadri · Jul 13, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

I think, as noted above, barrage is a good utlitarian skill. I've all but stopped using it, though, in favor of using skills that don't strip my preparations. Lately I've been having a lot of fun with Punishing Shot, used in combination with Dual Shot and Ignite Arrows.

I would say that a small factor, but not to be ignored, in ranger's choice of Barrage is that it just looks nifty shooting off all those arrows at once. It's cool. The best choice for an elite all the time? Probably not. But it's a decent choice if you don't want to do something more esoteric.

Reikai · Jul 13, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

not all rangers use barrage.

The ones that do are the wammos that decided to join the B/P era because they couldn't get into a group at ToPK

mathijn · Jul 13, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

i play punisher/poisener 90% of the time.
last time i used barrage was in combo with judge inside
MM's plague
poor minions

Munanko Roha · Jul 13, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I'm not a big fan of Barrage but, come on, it's a good skill and deserves its elite status. In PVP I would never take it for obvious reasons, but in missions like Vizunah Square with high Expertise and max Precision it's lot of fun comboed with Favorable Winds, Afflicted go down in no time. And, most important, it's a quick highly spammable AoE that will not make mobs scatter.

It doesn't even require the ranger using it to stay concentrated all the time like Punishing Shot does, or the ability to know when and where to place a Spike Trap, it's definitely a good elite.

samifly · Jul 13, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Barrage is a good skill.

It does decent if not great damage, against single targets. At 16 marksmanship, its +17 for 5 energy and 1 recharge.

Most other bow attacks that give a damage bonus do not recharge that fast, nor do they cost 5 energy.

The next closest damage-bonus skill in recharge is focused shot, which recharges in 2 seconds, gives about 8 additional damage over barrage, and takes out all your other attack skills.

There is Needling shot for targets under 50% health, but everything else has a longer recharge than barrage, or doesnt give a +damage bonus.

When you add in the fact that it can hit up to 6 targets, unless you are wanting to spike or degen, it make sense to bring it in PvE.

Orange Milk · Jul 13, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

It's just simple, thats why its good. And there are really very few, if any, place that barrage is useless.

Low energy cost with good damage output to multiple targets.

Or even if you are fighting just one target, its a spamable +16 dmg.

The main drawback( and reason I rarley use it) is no preparations can be used with it. I like to interupt or poision, or both, depending on my mood.

Horible · Jul 13, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Yes

Spammable Attack skill=cool

Spammable attack skill that can target up to 6 enemies=Awesome

Horible

QoH · Jul 13, 2006, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

What about one ranger running Melandru's Arrows and another with Apply Poison - now everyone has -8 degen.

2 barragers outdamage that. The reason i hardly use any ws based prep. is that you have to take points from mms. The more mms you have the more dmg you deal with every single shot.Even more chance for critical hits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Broad Head Arrow with interrupts is an easy and very effective build to run.

BHA is one of the worst ranger elites, in pve u can easily interrupt anyone with Concussion shot, in pvp all ppl kite so u won't hit anyone.

XvArchonvX · Jul 13, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I would actually like to see someone do a comparison of the damage between Barrage and various ele skills. While Meteor Shower might be a tough competitor in DPS, the advantage of barrage over this is that barrage can't really be interupted. The only thing that could stop it is Distracting Shot, but still to a much lesser extent than what would happen if Meteor Shower got interupted by it.

As for the comparison in damage to something like Firestorm, Maelstrom or other skills like that which do about 30 damage per second, Barrage seems to do about equal dps when used right. The assumption I leave here is that barrage is used with a Vampiric Flatbow under the influence of Favorable Winds. Again, the lack of a cooldown time still allows Barrage to be a more versatile skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolydarg

13 Expertise makes barrage spammable without the need for a zealous string.

Barrage is spammable at a much less expertise. Since rangers have 3 pips of energy which equals to about 1 energy every 3 seconds, barrage under 8 expertise (net cost of 3 energy) leaves your energy essentially neutral.

Basically what it boils down to is that Barrage is good, reliable AoE damage that won't spoil your aggro.
Another advantage of Barrage over other skills is that rangers are left with more open skill slots. This often is used for a pet which serves as additional damage to chosen targets as well as a meat shield to protect the group. While many scoff at the dps of a pet, with enough points put into BM, the pet can do a worthwhile amount of damage. I usually run at 9 BM which gives me about 8.8 extra dps (thank you Jenosavel and Epinephrine: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=89491)

SnipiousMax · Jul 13, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

^ Dropping points into BM also allows you to bring Edge of Extinction. Granted there are places that you will not and should not use it. (Anywhere you face human enemies) But it is a wonder against Afflicted and other inhuman mobs. It works really well in a barrage build.

Amy Awien · Jul 13, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by QoH

2 barragers outdamage that.

Situational, without opponents cuddling closely together Barrage becomes nothing more then a decent, spammable skill to increase damage.

Quote:

The reason i hardly use any ws based prep. is that you have to take points from mms. The more mms you have the more dmg you deal with every single shot.Even more chance for critical hits.

Pushing mms above 12 yields little further increase in damage, from 12 to 16 it is the equivalent of 8AL or about 15%, about 3 hp for a maxdamage bow and about 4 for a customized +15% version (+38%).

According to SonOfRah's articlethe Critical Hit chance would increase from 17% to 22% (for foes of equal level). With it's damage at sqrt(2)*max bowdamage a ch scores for ~55 on a +15% customized bow and the net damage becomes

[email protected]: .83 * 29.67 + .17 * 54.65 = 33.91
[email protected]: ( .78 * 29.67 + .22 * 54.65 ) * 1.15 = 35.17 *1.15 = 40.44

At WS 12, Kindle Arrows adds 20.

But don't understand me wrong, I like barrage.

Stranger The Ranger · Jul 13, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Barrage is overrated, use what you like to use yourself. If you're the only Ranger in a group, and they all say you got to take Barrage; leave, find a Barrage group, or take henchies.

AquilaI · Jul 13, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I love barrage, It's absolutely fantastic coupled with mark of pain and/or vigourous spirit/live vicariously

It's like a useful version of hundred blades

Epinephrine · Jul 13, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Barrage also has its own damage bonus, remember.

It is a very effective skill. With 6 targets you can deal the damage of 6 arrows, plus the barrage damage bonus, and if you have orders/conjure etc... that adds in directly too. The Barrage bonus alone is up to +17 damage per arrow, or over 100 bonus damage in ideal circumstances, plus the additional arrow damage.

That's why Barrage works - because it's a no-brainer with clustered folks, and since each attack is individual it doesn't even cause AoE panic.

Is it overplayed? Heck yes. Is it too powerful? Umm, maybe, in some situations. Is it the only way to play? Heck no!
But nobody can say that Barrage is a bad skill. A 5 energy skill that can add 102 bonus damage, as well as multiplying your base damage by 6? That's a lot of damage.

Note: I seldom play Barrage, but there are areas where it is very useful, and I do have a +20% enchanting bow with a fire string for when I want to conjure/barrage or JI barrage (haven't tried Brutal Weapon Barrage, but I bet it works well too)

Haggard · Jul 13, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

In my opinion, a barrager deals a lot better damage than an ele, and is harder to shutdown too.